*Official* Head & Helmet Thread https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/t9 Runboard| *Official* Head & Helmet Thread en-us Fri, 29 Mar 2024 08:54:09 +0000 Fri, 29 Mar 2024 08:54:09 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p8961,from=rss#post8961https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p8961,from=rss#post8961These are observations I've noticed. In Don post statue and the sequels, the engraved lines above his mouth are different. Instead of having a long horizontal line with a short vertical line on each side, there is only the long horizontal line. The engraved upside down "v" on his nose looks like its engraved deeper at the tip, in the sequels, but it gets very faint as it goes lower. The left side is so faint that it looks like the right side of the "v" goes lower than the left. It looks like this in all the pictures I used, so this must really be on the helmet. The Don Post statue (by observing 3d scans) has a deformed mouth. And the nose is way too short and the edges are very dull. Not sure how it ended up so inaccurate though, considering they casted it from real parts apparently.nondisclosed_email@example.com (funclips4u)Sat, 04 Mar 2023 00:07:42 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p8356,from=rss#post8356https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p8356,from=rss#post8356Brilliant post (You maybe crazy to some but we love your kind of crazy here) Very well written and documented! nondisclosed_email@example.com (Baxterianism)Tue, 14 Apr 2015 07:18:36 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p8355,from=rss#post8355https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p8355,from=rss#post8355Hi guys! More than 5 years after my last post (yes...5 years ) I still keep my eyes on my computer screen and many screen cap and photos of C 3PO (am I crazy??) I made new observations (and read again what members posted here). We know that concerning the back of the helmet, two styles exist. Detailled part and less detailled part with a different orientation. (the red lines illustrate how this part fit on the back part of the helmet) Anthony Daniels original helmet: Screen used helmet (not sure if it's identified as ESB or ROTJ) Steve Sansweet screen used helmet (ESB if I remember well) ROTS Now the other style (that we all know since it appears on Zorg lineage replicas and Don Post statue lineage replicas). AOTC screen used helmet Visual dictionnary (ANH mixed parts?) Dented rechromed head Disney's animatronic Vos replica Don Post statue copy We can notice the exception of this ANH helmet since the part is probably the machined one (thus removable). Note the same orientation: You will notice that I made a red line on some pictures (neck area). It seems that some helmets are rounder than other which looks "crushed" . I don't know if I'm really clear. But for those who hold a Zorg helmet and a Don Post cast, you probably noticed that this area isn't similar. The neck of the Don Post is rounded where the Zork helmet have the neck "crushed". It's something that we can see on some ANH helmet (which could confirm that the Vos helmet is derived from a screen used ANH helmet...or molds, even if it was in bad condition and then reworked). Same thing for the fact that the Don Post statue is derived from ESB. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Nairod)Sun, 12 Apr 2015 17:00:58 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p2715,from=rss#post2715https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p2715,from=rss#post2715I would also tend to say that K 3PO head seems to be an repainted ANH helmet. We can distinguish the gold coat in the notches of the arc (which are sharper than those on ESB helmet) nondisclosed_email@example.com (Nairod)Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:31:26 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p2709,from=rss#post2709https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p2709,from=rss#post2709I'm glad to see that I'm not alone in my quest ^^ I agree for the fact that it's hard to know the origins of displayed suits (some seems to have been rechromed). Some parts could have been replaced (antenna, lenses, etc...) I agree that they made several heads, according to this picture: For the ANH antenna, it's really hard to know since we don't have enough good close pics. I thought it wasn't the same as ESB or ROTJ since I have a Russ brass replica which is supposed to have been made with the help of an original ANH antenna. Here's a comparison pic (original ESB, excellent drawing of an ESB antenna hosted by Chris, Russ ANH replica) Maybe that Russ antenna isn't accurate, but it's hard to know withotu a good pictures of ANH helmet (but his neck bolts and eyes grids are just awesome, thus why not the antenna?) I also noticed that faceplate doesn't have the same shape. On the top it seems to raise while the other one seems flatter. (Well angles are not similar but take a Don Post head and a TK 409 helmet, the difference is blatant). I'm affraid that what I mean isn't clear The ANH face (on Tatooine) seems also more advanced! We distinguish almost the limit at the level of the junction with the back (first picture) Another thing (and again it will be hard to show what I mean with crap pictures). The neck bolts areas of the back are different from. It seems that ANH and ROTJ are similar, but ESB and AOTC are different: Other difference, the arc around the head (I don't know how to call this part.) ANH and ROTJ helmets have sharp notches, but ESB and ROTS are rounder, less sharp. For the back detailled part, it seems that ANH and ROTJ have a removable very detailled part and ESB/AOTC less detailled part casted in the whole back piece. Thus my supposition is that they reused an ANH helmet for ROTJ (some scene). For ESB, they could have made a copy of ANH, then they reused ESB helmet for AOTC and ROTS. But it's just a supposition, according to what I've observed (with pictures which aren't the best) and what Don Bies told. For the ANH/ROTJ relation, I can make a mistake. I observed this helmet which is supposed to be a ROTJ. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Nairod)Tue, 22 Dec 2009 08:00:29 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p2705,from=rss#post2705https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p2705,from=rss#post2705You know... after reading this: "Just saw this on in the R2Builder's forum regarding the C-3PO head. Don Bies sets the story straight with his reply below. It appears that he's saying that the ROTJ (LFL archives) heads were molded and copied for AOTC and ROTS. The ANH and ESB head molds do not exist at LFL, but may exist somewhere in the UK. Thanks for the great info Don! ------------------------------------------ Frank Cerney wrote: > Wanna hear something funny? > Another friend of mine, currently working on IRON MAN, had a Zorg head (from Zorg not a knock off). > He took it with him when his buddy at ILM invited him up for a tour.. > WHen John (ILM guy) saw it,....he asked if they could BORROW it as the heads/molds they had from ANH that were now needed for PREQUELS..were in HORRIBLE Shape. > So all the heads you see in the prequels of C3Po were molded off my friends ZORG head. > Go Figure. > Frank ----------- Don Bies replied: Interesting story. Not true, however. The four heads used for Episode 2 & 3 (two painted multi-silver for Ep2, two vacuum-metalized for Ep3) came from the archives...I know, as I personally pulled them. The molds from ANH or ESB do not exist at Lucasfilm (they may very well be somewhere still in the UK), and no new castings were made for the prequels. Hope your friend didn't get ripped off with that little bit of misinformation. What's John's (the ILM guy)last name? I can tell you if he even works or worked there... --Don Bies" I'm actually not sure I believe Don here... Seeing as the back of the helmet in AOTC is completely different then the back of the helmet from ROTS: And the back of Chris's helmet (which has linage the Zorg helmet). Matches the back of the AotC helmet almost exactly! Im not too sure Don's story is completely accurate It certainly looks like the AotC helmet may have been casted off of a Zorg helmet (or another casted ANH/ESB helmet), especially considering Don said that they no longer have ANH or ESB helmet molds!nondisclosed_email@example.com (Mr Tea)Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:03:07 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p2703,from=rss#post2703https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p2703,from=rss#post2703I'm sorry I have been sitting out of this one a while, I really enjoy this type of topic. I wish I had a little more time to do the proper research on all of this.. Perhaps eventually :P I would be weary about using display helmets as basis for any research though, unless you can place one of the display helmets in a movie by comparing them to screen grabs... For all we know, the helmets used for display may have been backup or unused helmets. Or simply made off the same molds, VMed, and sent out strictly for display. Also, I think we should separate the linage of the "suits" from the linage of the "heads" because while they may have only made a few suits (less than 5?) they surely must have made quite a few more heads, I'm sure we could find 7+ or more heads that claim to be the real thing, if you count up the helmets that have been auctioned, displayed, or currently owned by collectors. As an example, I'm pretty positive that the display helmet you just pictured had its antenna replaced with a resin antenna... or something. It is defiantly not an accurate antenna. I'm fairly certain that the design of the antenna did not change at all throughout the original films, contrary to what may have been stated before. It seems to me the antenna looks identical (at least the design) in all the original movies. While I don't have HD screengrabs of all the films (I will eventually though, hopefully) I do have a few of ANH and ESB. Here are some shots from the 3 original films: ANH ESB ROTJ Perhaps the dented display head you just posted was a re-chromed version of this head? I'm curious to hear your thoughts nondisclosed_email@example.com (Mr Tea)Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:39:51 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p2687,from=rss#post2687https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p2687,from=rss#post2687Since I made a confusion between an original and a Don Post head (yes, I know I know..... ) I have few questions about this original helmet (I've found other views) Since it has two dents, is it a restored ANH helmet? If yesn it's funny to see that the antenna seems to be a recast of an ESB antenna (but without the hole at the end) It's not the same lenses too. And for the back detailled part, it's not the very detailled style: But maybe it's simply an ESB helmet (but I don't remember these two dents) nondisclosed_email@example.com (Nairod)Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:06:31 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p2680,from=rss#post2680https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p2680,from=rss#post2680Thanks Chris. No doubt that your helmet has ESB origins. Very nice.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Nairod)Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:14:15 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p2679,from=rss#post2679https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p2679,from=rss#post2679nondisclosed_email@example.com (Trooper TK409)Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:51:04 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p2608,from=rss#post2608https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p2608,from=rss#post2608Mine's due for a refinish (it's been 3 years and traveled about 50,000 miles), my outfit is pretty dinged up, but if you don't mind the rough appearance I'll try to post it.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Trooper TK409)Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:02:20 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p2605,from=rss#post2605https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p2605,from=rss#post2605Some news, especially about the part on the back of the helmet. It's hard to find good pictures but as you can see, there is some differences: AOTC (full resin): What was identified as a ROTJ helmet: More detailled on the ROTJ helmet. And seems to be removable. According to Don Bies (thanks to Jez website again) "To the best of my knowledge, the suits were remade for ESB, probably using the original parts or molds as a starting point. No new suits were made for any other remaining sequels...with the exception of TC-14 from Ep1[...] The Ep2 "Patchwork" suit was an ESB one (we only painted one complete suit, plus a couple additional parts here and there), as were the two gold Ep3 suits--one of which is part of the Science Museum exhibit that started in Boston." So the AOTC head is a repainted ESB. So the ESB helmet is a recast of an ANH helmet (or made with the same helmet). The back of the head is less detailled and seems to be made out of resin but not the ROTJ. Can we suppose that they reused an ANH head for ROTJ? I would love to see a close picture of the back of the head made by Chris. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Nairod)Sun, 22 Nov 2009 20:28:26 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p1936,from=rss#post1936https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p1936,from=rss#post1936You haven't offended me at all! I'm really happy that you post these observations. In fact it's really hard to know and I hope that we will have others advises and suggestions. For the back of ANH helmet, that could mean that helmets from Vos, Zorg and Dishman were deformed. Because the back is really different from Chris helmet (for exemple)nondisclosed_email@example.com (Nairod)Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:13:15 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p1934,from=rss#post1934https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p1934,from=rss#post1934Interesting post! I see you have done quite a bit of research. I'm not too sure about a couple things though. I don't believe there a multiple styles of ANH helmets, and your comparison pictures were made of mostly fan made helmets. I think it just looks that way because of the angle in the pictures. The shots of the "longer" helmet show 3po's face looking slightly toward the camera, while the shots of the 'shorter' helmet are looking directly at the side of his head: I also do not believe that the same helmet was casted over and over again. I think the detail on the back of the original helmet was able to 'rotate' and perhaps multiple casts were made of that helmet. You will see that the detail changes direction from film to film. It seems as though a cast of the same helmet "back" may have been used in ANH, ESB, and AotC, but a different helmet back was used for both RotJ and RotS. Another thing you will notice are the "notches" on the side of the helmet. They match in ANH, ESB, and AotC, but are different for RotJ and RotS. Click here to see what I mean. So it seems the ESB and AotC helmets (or at least the "backs") came from ANH, while the RotS version came from a RotJ helmet back. I don't believe any of the original helmets were re-plated for the newer films. I think the picture of the back of the AotC helmet is just slightly shiny in the worn down areas, and the orange lights above are making it look gold. I also think the chips near the eye on the display helmet were later painted over with gold paint: Just my thoughts! I hope I haven't offended you, these are just some observations I have made myself. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Mr Tea)Fri, 13 Feb 2009 19:26:03 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p1925,from=rss#post1925https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p1925,from=rss#post1925Chris, if you don't like it, I would not be hurt if you erase my message. Finally I tried to make a file in order to illustrate the différences between each version of C 3PO’s helmet (ANH, ESB, ROTJ, AOTC and ROTS). First, I would like you know that I’m sorry for my poor English. I don’t know everythings about this character and especially the helmet. These are primarily observations that I have make. Thus, it’s possible that I make errors. Thank you for your leniency and your corrections We all know (thanks to Jez website http://web.ukonline.co.uk/bingo275/index.htm ) that ESB suits were re made for the movie (by recasting ANH parts) I think that ROTJ suit are similar to the ESB (not sure). AOTC suit was a repainted ESB suit (we can see some mark of the chrome (in lower part of painting) Same thing for the ROTS suit, a re chromed ESB suit: So we can think that there is two styles of helmets for C 3PO: ANH and ESB (modified and reused) Each helmets wre made out of fiberglass with white gel coat for ANH helmet and grey gel coat for the others: ANH helmet seems to have two styles of back of the head. One which looks like to the ESB (short version) and one which seems to be bigger and more lengthened (I also used ANH replicas like Vos, Zorg and Dishman to observe that): « Lengthened » style: http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=561&u=11603131 « ESB » style: (in order, ANH, ESB, ROTJ and AOTC helmets): http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=562&u=11603131 Differences between each styles: ANH helmet seems to have a custom part on the back (machined part) which was include in the process of recasting for ESB helmet and others: Fiberglass for AOTC helmet (picture from TK 409 collection) Antenna is different between ANH and others movies. I don’t have a good close view of the ANH antenna, so I used a picture of Russ antenna (which is a screen accurate replica of one ANH antenna) Neck rings. I’m not sure, but it seems that it’s screws on ANH helmet and bolts for others helmets. I say screws for ANH helmets because Zorg, Vos and Dishman replicas have small holes, like screw hole and not bigger holes for bolts like on ESB replicas (Don Post statue’s head for example) Eyes grids. Seems to be similar for each helmets. An ANH version is different with a partial ring: And for the ROTS helmet, lenses are very close to the grids (others helmets, lenses are deeper..) The thickness of branches is irregular (probable resin recast) Lenses: Not the same for each movies as you can see above (not sure for AOTC helmet, I don’t have good picture) Here's what I mainly observed. Not sure if thus I’ m not sure to be totally right. And again, sorry for English mistakes.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Nairod)Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:38:49 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p1866,from=rss#post1866https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p1866,from=rss#post1866No idea guys? C 3PO expert?? ^^nondisclosed_email@example.com (Nairod)Sat, 17 Jan 2009 16:24:43 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p1825,from=rss#post1825https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p1825,from=rss#post1825I found it on internet. I searched pictures of C 3PO and I "discovered" this picture! Unfortunatly, it's not a good resolution.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Nairod)Wed, 07 Jan 2009 08:09:14 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p1824,from=rss#post1824https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p1824,from=rss#post1824AH! thanks nondisclosed_email@example.com (Goldenrod)Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:40:35 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p1821,from=rss#post1821https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p1821,from=rss#post1821That picture can be found in Steve Sansweets book Star Wars the Action Figure Archive on the protocol page, or page 36, depending on the version of the book. nondisclosed_email@example.com (D3po2)Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:00:50 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p1819,from=rss#post1819https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p1819,from=rss#post1819I'm not familar with this pic. Whats its story?nondisclosed_email@example.com (Goldenrod)Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:02:12 +0000 Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p1818,from=rss#post1818https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p1818,from=rss#post1818Again, I don't want to polute this forum with a new topic! I would like to know which are the difference between the differents C 3PO's helmets please? (ANH/ESB/ROTJ) I know that AOTC is a repaint of an original ESB suit and ROTS is a restored ESB suit (if I'm not mistaken) I also know that the ANH antenna is different from the ESB/ROTJ antenna. And that the circle on the back of the ANH helmet is a custom and a part piece. Finally, if someone have this pictures in better resolution, that would be great! http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=514&u=11603131 Thank for your helpnondisclosed_email@example.com (Nairod)Tue, 06 Jan 2009 14:24:42 +0000 *Official* Head & Helmet Threadhttps://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p13,from=rss#post13https://bc3pobuilders.runboard.com/p13,from=rss#post13quote:Trooper TK409 wrote: Just saw this on in the R2Builder's forum regarding the C-3PO head. Don Bies sets the story straight with his reply below. It appears that he's saying that the ROTJ (LFL archives) heads were molded and copied for AOTC and ROTS. The ANH and ESB head molds do not exist at LFL, but may exist somewhere in the UK. Thanks for the great info Don! ------------------------------------------ Frank Cerney wrote: > Wanna hear something funny? > Another friend of mine, currently working on IRON MAN, had a Zorg head (from Zorg not a knock off). > He took it with him when his buddy at ILM invited him up for a tour.. > WHen John (ILM guy) saw it,....he asked if they could BORROW it as the heads/molds they had from ANH that were now needed for PREQUELS..were in HORRIBLE Shape. > So all the heads you see in the prequels of C3Po were molded off my friends ZORG head. > Go Figure. > Frank ----------- Don Bies replied: Interesting story. Not true, however. The four heads used for Episode 2 & 3 (two painted multi-silver for Ep2, two vacuum-metalized for Ep3) came from the archives...I know, as I personally pulled them. The molds from ANH or ESB do not exist at Lucasfilm (they may very well be somewhere still in the UK), and no new castings were made for the prequels. Hope your friend didn't get ripped off with that little bit of misinformation. What's John's (the ILM guy)last name? I can tell you if he even works or worked there... --Don Bies Some history on the Zorg helmet: quote:Vos wrote:  Hi Chris, Zorg did buy a 3PO head from me a few years back. I bought it from The PropStore of London. It originally came from an anonymous employee at Elstree Studios. The front and back were pulled from original moulds and the details were made by the guy who made the casting. That's all I know (or can remember) really. It might be worth dropping Stephen Lane at the Propstore an email to see if he can remember any more of the history. Hope this helps. Neil nondisclosed_email@example.com (Trooper TK409)Sat, 02 Jun 2007 14:57:30 +0000