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Nairod Profile
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Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Thread


Some news, especially about the part on the back of the helmet.

It's hard to find good pictures but as you can see, there is some differences:

AOTC (full resin):

Image

What was identified as a ROTJ helmet:
Image

More detailled on the ROTJ helmet. And seems to be removable.

According to Don Bies (thanks to Jez website again)

"To the best of my knowledge, the suits were remade for ESB, probably using the original parts or molds as a starting point. No new suits were made for any other remaining sequels...with the exception of TC-14 from Ep1[...] The Ep2 "Patchwork" suit was an ESB one (we only painted one complete suit, plus a couple additional parts here and there), as were the two gold Ep3 suits--one of which is part of the Science Museum exhibit that started in Boston."

So the AOTC head is a repainted ESB. So the ESB helmet is a recast of an ANH helmet (or made with the same helmet). The back of the head is less detailled and seems to be made out of resin but not the ROTJ.
Can we suppose that they reused an ANH head for ROTJ?

I would love to see a close picture of the back of the head made by Chris.
11/22/2009, 8:28 pm Link to this post Send Email to Nairod   Send PM to Nairod
 
Trooper TK409 Profile
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Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Thread


Mine's due for a refinish (it's been 3 years and traveled about 50,000 miles), my outfit is pretty dinged up, but if you don't mind the rough appearance I'll try to post it.

---

- Chris Bartlett
11/23/2009, 11:02 am Link to this post Send Email to Trooper TK409
 
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Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Thread


Image

---

- Chris Bartlett
12/14/2009, 4:51 pm Link to this post Send Email to Trooper TK409
 
Nairod Profile
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Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Thread


Thanks Chris.

No doubt that your helmet has ESB origins.

Very nice.
12/15/2009, 6:14 am Link to this post Send Email to Nairod   Send PM to Nairod
 
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Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Thread


Since I made a confusion between an original and a Don Post head (yes, I know I know..... emoticon ) I have few questions about this original helmet (I've found other views)

Image

Since it has two dents, is it a restored ANH helmet? If yesn it's funny to see that the antenna seems to be a recast of an ESB antenna (but without the hole at the end)

Image

It's not the same lenses too.

And for the back detailled part, it's not the very detailled style:

Image

But maybe it's simply an ESB helmet (but I don't remember these two dents)
12/17/2009, 7:06 am Link to this post Send Email to Nairod   Send PM to Nairod
 
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Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Thread


I'm sorry I have been sitting out of this one a while, I really enjoy this type of topic.

I wish I had a little more time to do the proper research on all of this.. Perhaps eventually :P

I would be weary about using display helmets as basis for any research though, unless you can place one of the display helmets in a movie by comparing them to screen grabs... For all we know, the helmets used for display may have been backup or unused helmets. Or simply made off the same molds, VMed, and sent out strictly for display.

Also, I think we should separate the linage of the "suits" from the linage of the "heads" because while they may have only made a few suits (less than 5?) they surely must have made quite a few more heads, I'm sure we could find 7+ or more heads that claim to be the real thing, if you count up the helmets that have been auctioned, displayed, or currently owned by collectors.

As an example, I'm pretty positive that the display helmet you just pictured had its antenna replaced with a resin antenna... or something. It is defiantly not an accurate antenna.

I'm fairly certain that the design of the antenna did not change at all throughout the original films, contrary to what may have been stated before.

It seems to me the antenna looks identical (at least the design) in all the original movies. While I don't have HD screengrabs of all the films (I will eventually though, hopefully) I do have a few of ANH and ESB. Here are some shots from the 3 original films:

ANH
Image

ESB
Image
Image

ROTJ
Image
Image

Perhaps the dented display head you just posted was a re-chromed version of this head?
Image
Image

I'm curious to hear your thoughts emoticon

---

12/21/2009, 4:39 pm Link to this post Send Email to Mr Tea   Send PM to Mr Tea ICQ AIM MSN
 
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Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Thread


You know... after reading this:

"Just saw this on in the R2Builder's forum regarding the C-3PO head. Don Bies sets the story straight with his reply below. It appears that he's saying that the ROTJ (LFL archives) heads were molded and copied for AOTC and ROTS. The ANH and ESB head molds do not exist at LFL, but may exist somewhere in the UK. Thanks for the great info Don!

------------------------------------------
Frank Cerney wrote:

> Wanna hear something funny?
> Another friend of mine, currently working on IRON MAN, had a Zorg
head (from Zorg not a knock off).
> He took it with him when his buddy at ILM invited him up for a tour..
> WHen John (ILM guy) saw it,....he asked if they could BORROW it as
the heads/molds they had from ANH that were now needed for
PREQUELS..were in HORRIBLE Shape.
> So all the heads you see in the prequels of C3Po were molded off my
friends ZORG head.
> Go Figure.
> Frank

-----------
Don Bies replied:

Interesting story.

Not true, however.

The four heads used for Episode 2 & 3 (two painted multi-silver for
Ep2, two vacuum-metalized for Ep3) came from the archives...I know, as
I personally pulled them.

The molds from ANH or ESB do not exist at Lucasfilm (they may very
well be somewhere still in the UK), and no new castings were made for
the prequels.

Hope your friend didn't get ripped off with that little bit of
misinformation.

What's John's (the ILM guy)last name? I can tell you if he even works
or worked there...

--Don Bies"


I'm actually not sure I believe Don here... Seeing as the back of the helmet in AOTC is completely different then the back of the helmet from ROTS:

Image


And the back of Chris's helmet (which has linage the Zorg helmet). Matches the back of the AotC helmet almost exactly!

Image

Im not too sure Don's story is completely accurate emoticon

It certainly looks like the AotC helmet may have been casted off of a Zorg helmet (or another casted ANH/ESB helmet), especially considering Don said that they no longer have ANH or ESB helmet molds!

---

12/21/2009, 5:03 pm Link to this post Send Email to Mr Tea   Send PM to Mr Tea ICQ AIM MSN
 
Nairod Profile
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Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Thread


I'm glad to see that I'm not alone in my quest ^^

I agree for the fact that it's hard to know the origins of displayed suits (some seems to have been rechromed).

Some parts could have been replaced (antenna, lenses, etc...)

I agree that they made several heads, according to this picture:

Image

For the ANH antenna, it's really hard to know since we don't have enough good close pics. I thought it wasn't the same as ESB or ROTJ since I have a Russ brass replica which is supposed to have been made with the help of an original ANH antenna.
Here's a comparison pic (original ESB, excellent drawing of an ESB antenna hosted by Chris, Russ ANH replica)

Image

Maybe that Russ antenna isn't accurate, but it's hard to know withotu a good pictures of ANH helmet (but his neck bolts and eyes grids are just awesome, thus why not the antenna?)

I also noticed that faceplate doesn't have the same shape. On the top it seems to raise while the other one seems flatter. (Well angles are not similar but take a Don Post head and a TK 409 helmet, the difference is blatant). I'm affraid that what I mean isn't clear emoticon

Image

The ANH face (on Tatooine) seems also more advanced! We distinguish almost the limit at the level of the junction with the back (first picture)

Another thing (and again it will be hard to show what I mean with crap pictures). The neck bolts areas of the back are different from. It seems that ANH and ROTJ are similar, but ESB and AOTC are different:

Image

Other difference, the arc around the head (I don't know how to call this part.) ANH and ROTJ helmets have sharp notches, but ESB and ROTS are rounder, less sharp.

For the back detailled part, it seems that ANH and ROTJ have a removable very detailled part and ESB/AOTC less detailled part casted in the whole back piece.

Thus my supposition is that they reused an ANH helmet for ROTJ (some scene). For ESB, they could have made a copy of ANH, then they reused ESB helmet for AOTC and ROTS.

But it's just a supposition, according to what I've observed (with pictures which aren't the best) and what Don Bies told.
For the ANH/ROTJ relation, I can make a mistake. I observed this helmet which is supposed to be a ROTJ.

Image
12/22/2009, 8:00 am Link to this post Send Email to Nairod   Send PM to Nairod
 
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Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Thread


I would also tend to say that K 3PO head seems to be an repainted ANH helmet.

Image

We can distinguish the gold coat in the notches of the arc (which are sharper than those on ESB helmet)

Image
12/23/2009, 9:31 am Link to this post Send Email to Nairod   Send PM to Nairod
 
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Re: *Official* Head & Helmet Thread


Hi guys!

More than 5 years after my last post (yes...5 years emoticon ) I still keep my eyes on my computer screen and many screen cap and photos of C 3PO (am I crazy??)

I made new observations (and read again what members posted here).

We know that concerning the back of the helmet, two styles exist.

Detailled part and less detailled part with a different orientation. (the red lines illustrate how this part fit on the back part of the helmet)

Anthony Daniels original helmet:

Image

Screen used helmet (not sure if it's identified as ESB or ROTJ)

Image

Steve Sansweet screen used helmet (ESB if I remember well)

Image

ROTS

Image
Image

Now the other style (that we all know since it appears on Zorg lineage replicas and Don Post statue lineage replicas).

AOTC screen used helmet

Image

Visual dictionnary (ANH mixed parts?)

Image

Dented rechromed head

Image

Disney's animatronic

Image

Vos replica

Image

Image

Don Post statue copy

Image

We can notice the exception of this ANH helmet since the part is probably the machined one (thus removable). Note the same orientation:

Image
Image

You will notice that I made a red line on some pictures (neck area).
It seems that some helmets are rounder than other which looks "crushed"

. I don't know if I'm really clear. But for those who hold a Zorg helmet and a Don Post cast, you probably noticed that this area isn't similar. The neck of the Don Post is rounded where the Zork helmet have the neck "crushed".

It's something that we can see on some ANH helmet (which could confirm that the Vos helmet is derived from a screen used ANH helmet...or molds, even if it was in bad condition and then reworked).
Same thing for the fact that the Don Post statue is derived from ESB.



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